tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post7311178792082204283..comments2024-03-04T02:09:30.979-06:00Comments on One Man's Pony Ramblings: A Comment and a QuestionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-49251279658711508362013-11-28T16:17:12.774-06:002013-11-28T16:17:12.774-06:00In regards to OMaM's fiasco, I would say that ...In regards to OMaM's fiasco, I would say that it's issue is far deeper than the direct pressure for a different ending. I would say that in fact that negative impact on the creative process began due to the far more subversive peer pressure of fandom memes and tropes, such as shipping, specifically the Twixie OTP of many. Most people who truly liked the story enjoyed the early chapters without romance equally to the rest of the story, and pretty much all of the illogical butthurt over the original ending was from readers who were obsessed with that meme and cared about the shipping far more than the story itself. If the story had avoided shipping to begin with, none of the negative points of the story would exist.<br /><br />As for Erotic Ponyfiction...<br /><br />I don't want to make that long of a comment here so I will keep my opinions to 2 specific fics:<br /><br />1: Romance Reports: Is the sex integral to the story. Disregarding my personal opinions on plot and characterization, I would say that, to be precise, the degree of explicitness in the majority of the erotic scenes is completely unnecessary in regards to the story. However, a large amount of character development occurs internally during most of these scenes. I would say that, based on how the scenes are written and what aspects of them affect the story, there is only 1 sex scene that would detract from the story if altered. The majority of the other scenes are integral to the story but could have been far less or completely non-explicit. There are at least 2 scenes where it would have made no difference if the intimacy was sexual or milder and there are at least 2 scenes that are completely skippable.<br /><br />I would like to say that RR has a unique case of OOC. The characters' personalities are very IC for the most part, but the majority of their actions are unfathomably OOC. And this applies to nearly every character in the story from the princesses down to Spike.<br /><br /><br />2: Bechdel's Law: This is an incomplete fic but each part is more or less a self-contained story. I would hold chapter 1 only as probably the best example of a story about and containing sex in the fandom, period. The sex scenes do not get overly descriptive of anatomy, the characters are believable and make sense, and characterization is not forced at all. Romance Reports is probably a better story, despite all the characters losing terribly at idiot dodge-ball, but Beschdel's Law chapter 1 is probably the best done story of it's type, and the one single article of MLP:FiM erotica I respect.DPV111https://www.blogger.com/profile/01437920503784386649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-13566739002374324812013-11-19T20:46:55.854-06:002013-11-19T20:46:55.854-06:00Chris, stop saying "pop up", it's no...Chris, stop saying "pop up", it's not helping. :BPresent Perfecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16195959811544391904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-50682916211802114122013-11-19T20:46:26.850-06:002013-11-19T20:46:26.850-06:00The fact that they're ponies is why I find the...The fact that they're ponies is why I find the concept <i>so hilarious</i>.<br /><br />But I'm pretty sure that's just me.Present Perfecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16195959811544391904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-80976759067916824252013-11-19T20:38:38.601-06:002013-11-19T20:38:38.601-06:00Dangit guys, this didn't help me make a decisi...Dangit guys, this didn't help me make a decision at all! It just gave me more to chew on!<br /><br />Anyway, I'm definitely not going to rule out anything with sex in it--I reviewed <i>Fallout: Equestria</i> after all--but as to RR specifically (or a couple of the other fics mentioned here), I think the wise thing to do is probably to skim through the story in question before deciding whether to consider it. In any event, don't expect to see any of these stories pop up on my review list right away, if they pop up at all--but I'll keep them under consideration going forward.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11581572699330155065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-20571301830206050752013-11-19T20:32:30.596-06:002013-11-19T20:32:30.596-06:00You make good points about sexual writing, but for...You make good points about sexual writing, but for me personally... in my (extremely, extremely limited) exposure to pony sex, I've never been able to get past the fact that the creatures whose sex acts are being described in terms designed to titillate are <i>ponies</i>. Leaving aside the fact that they're sapient and all, they have anatomies which I find totally antithetical to arousal. <br /><br />You can see, I'm sure, why that would make erotic pony lit a non-starter for me. That's not to say I could never enjoy a story that had pony sex in it, but fanfics or scenes in fanfics designed solely to provoke arousal simply don't "work" for me.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11581572699330155065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-13678097457076795962013-11-19T20:23:35.100-06:002013-11-19T20:23:35.100-06:00To me, the more obvious comparison was to gratuito...To me, the more obvious comparison was to gratuitous gore, rather than gratuitous humor--and I <i>do</i> object to gratuitous gore. There's a reason it's called "torture porn," after all.<br /><br />There's a place in the world for things (written or otherwise) which serve no purpose other than to arouse one's self, sexually or bloodlustilly... but reviews of the sort I like to do are not one of those places.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11581572699330155065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-66079728076245358142013-11-19T20:12:50.893-06:002013-11-19T20:12:50.893-06:00Yes, America (as a society) is ruled by an uneasy ...Yes, America (as a society) is ruled by an uneasy mix of sexual liberation and puritanical morality. It makes for an uneasy mix, sometimes. Well, often. And it's certainly true that I personally have a greater tolerance for pony gore than pony sex (though in both cases, I have little to no tolerance for <i>inexplicable</i> pony gore/sex). Make of that what you will.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11581572699330155065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-21222617331198429672013-11-19T20:08:56.735-06:002013-11-19T20:08:56.735-06:00I definitely want to avoid "XXX stories,"...I definitely want to avoid "XXX stories," but I don't feel like that's necessarily the same as avoiding stories with sex in them. I do have reservations about appropriateness for the blog, though; while I don't have any strict "family friendly" policy, I do mostly try to keep my my posts suitable for all readers.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11581572699330155065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-75195624238178601842013-11-16T09:30:49.541-06:002013-11-16T09:30:49.541-06:00I don't get out:
Among the fandom that much--...I don't get out:<br /><br />Among the fandom that much--of the 20 "fandom classics" you've reviewed so far, I've only even heard of five of them--so I don't know how unusual it is for a piece of fanfiction to inspire fanfiction of its own. But <i>Romance Reports</i> has Device Heretic's <i><a href="http://www.fimfiction.net/story/57503/the-other-mare" rel="nofollow">The Other Mare</a></i>, Cold in Gardez's "<a href="http://www.fimfiction.net/story/75104/in-the-garden-of-good-and-evil" rel="nofollow">In the Garden of Good and Evil</a>," and my own "<a href="http://www.fimfiction.net/story/76227/the-golden-age" rel="nofollow">The Golden Age</a>" attached to it like happy little remoras. Which shows that at least three of us found enough of interest in the story to wade into it ourselves. :)<br /><br />The only problem I've ever had with the story is at the very beginning where we're asked to accept Twilight's crush on Princess Luna without a bit of preamble. Other than that, though...<br /><br />MikeAugieDoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03335437708896110261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-88493921513619209002013-11-16T01:24:25.277-06:002013-11-16T01:24:25.277-06:00"Romance Reports" is not a bad story, al..."Romance Reports" is not a bad story, although SleeplessBrony has some style quirks to his writing that might be irritating, especially considering the length of the story. I agree with InquisitorM that the sex scenes aren't "necessary", per se, but they do add to the tone and texture of the story. And while the story has its haters and detractors, some of whom have made excellent points against it, I think its upvote/downvote ratio on Fimfiction does warrant its inclusion here (it's at 2277 up to 97 down at the time of this writing).<br /><br />It still doesn't hold a candle to its companion story "Like Fine Wine", but that's a personal opinion due to that one being among the best Sparity stories out there, and I happen to like that pairing (with appropriately aged Spike, natch).Osperonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-25516816208069212672013-11-14T21:59:50.005-06:002013-11-14T21:59:50.005-06:00I'll be honest -- I liked Romance Reports. The...I'll be honest -- I liked Romance Reports. There are very, very few stories that have attempted to actually include sex while not descending to the level of porn, and that was one of the first. It was enough to convince me to try dipping my toes in those waters (a few people above mentioned Salvation), and I have to say I don't regret it.<br /><br />Here's my view: sex is a human activity, and it's one of the most important. To purposefully avoid reading or writing about it simply because it is so often conflated with sexual gratification is to ignore an entire facet of human life. I am convinced it can be done well, and I believe I have seen it done well. I hope I am doing it well.<br /><br />As for RR, I think the strongest part was the characterization and narrative tone, rather than the sex scenes themselves. I'm not sure you could skip them, but if they're that offensive to you, it wouldn't be impossible.Cold in Gardezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05447980928221472313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-71029285533215296072013-11-14T07:01:59.038-06:002013-11-14T07:01:59.038-06:00I'd say yes, you should read Romance Reports. ...I'd say yes, you should read Romance Reports. I think it's a great story that's very well-written and has pretty accurate characterisation. It just also has a ton of sex in it, which isn't entirely gratuitous.Nosnibormadahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17097762126537282823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-49502513061231462462013-11-14T00:27:10.499-06:002013-11-14T00:27:10.499-06:00I think complaining about gratuitous sex is like c...I think complaining about gratuitous sex is like complaining about gratuitous humor. A serious story that had jokes thrown in at odd moments would be irritating in the same way as a story with random sex scenes, but sex shouldn't be singled out as something that needs to be specially justified more than any other element. Like humor, it is its own justification, if done well. Sexual arousal is a valid goal. I think the main reason I don't read porn is just that video works better.<br /><br />I hope you read Romance Reports, because then I won't have to (unless it's good).Bad Horsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10735227563256689679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-55719985817328812222013-11-14T00:09:52.129-06:002013-11-14T00:09:52.129-06:00This reminds me of the time my students thought I ...This reminds me of the time my students thought I was a drug dealer because I had an ounce scale in my office for weighing envelopes. I didn't want to admit that I wasn't, because it was the first time I'd ever been cool.<br /><br />I've "committed" acts of mild BDSM with women who liked it--a surprisingly large fraction of women do!--and I've read some about it because it's fascinating and puzzling. But so far, it doesn't appeal to me.<br /><br />The horse suit, though--I like that.Bad Horsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10735227563256689679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-19158414530701205962013-11-13T23:41:25.177-06:002013-11-13T23:41:25.177-06:00Wait, it's possible to write good sex scenes? ...Wait, it's possible to write good sex scenes? I haven't read many sex scenes, admittedly, but all the ones I have either made me laugh or cringeHolly Oatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01703437987958922954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-47831927871169259622013-11-13T23:24:56.229-06:002013-11-13T23:24:56.229-06:00That's what I was trying to say, only better. ...That's what I was trying to say, only better. Can I have your brain, Whooves?Holly Oatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01703437987958922954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-83924600009957669452013-11-13T20:57:47.668-06:002013-11-13T20:57:47.668-06:00You should definitely read RR, as I consider it a ...You should definitely read RR, as I consider it a pretty amazing story. In response to your first question, there is a pretty complicated and engaging narrative underlying the sex having. As for the second question, I'd give it a sort of. The sex is likely not a strictly necessary component of the story, but I feel that it does some good characterizing work, and that it occasionally has minor impacts on the story. It could probably be removed, and the fic wouldn't be destroyed by the absence, but there's a chance that it would be made a bit worse. The whole fic is about Twilight's evolution as a character, and the sex having is a part of that to some extent. Eggynackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04550874759566597067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-35032514305147005192013-11-13T19:27:21.850-06:002013-11-13T19:27:21.850-06:00And again. All those bits you listed were the thin...And again. All those bits you listed were the things that killed it for me. The world building was mostly just setting up excuses to make a human have sex with multiple talking horses.<br /><br />As for Lyra/RD... more world <i>destroying</i> than world <i>building</i>. It was pretty much gutting anything l liked about the show and replacing it with generic wankery. To me, it comes of as a total lack of imagination, not the use of it.InquisitorMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209346997929773686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-7131083455235759322013-11-13T12:49:00.942-06:002013-11-13T12:49:00.942-06:00Porn Without Plot (which takes on an unintended do...Porn Without Plot (which takes on an unintended double meaning in this particular fandom, come to think of it...).Osperonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-30598452622784511132013-11-13T12:45:13.277-06:002013-11-13T12:45:13.277-06:00I agree that "Xenophilia" would have bee...I agree that "Xenophilia" would have been better without so much sex. And the plot is sort of romance with a discarded mystery. But the worldbuilding is fantastic. That's why it has so many spin-offs, similar to "Fallout: Equestria" (though not to the same extent). Rainbow and Lyra have great characterization. Pony social behaviors are pretty interesting. I also liked the martial arts aspects, but they may not resonate with everyone.Professor Whoovesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-85508526329716874972013-11-13T10:49:37.629-06:002013-11-13T10:49:37.629-06:00"preceded by the context, because without con..."preceded by the context, because without context you'd just have mm - tx, assuming my algebraic skills haven't abandoned me"<br /><br />They kinda have: comment - context = coent*(mm - xt) if we assume the usual axioms and that c,o,m,e,n,t & x are drawn from the set of complex numbers (you would have problems if any were quaternions, as multiplication ceases to be commutative).<br /><br />Unless you're saying that comment = c+o+m+m+e+n+t & context = c+o+n+t+e+x+t, in which case you're correct.<br /><br />"At bare minimum, however, I would be looking for two things in such a story: is there a story here beyond the porn, and is the sexual material important to the story"<br /><br />With regards to Romance Reports, yes to the first and no to the second. Sort of.<br /><br />I think you can split stories that contain sex into two rough categories: stories in which it is important that sex was had and stories in which something important happens during the sex. To me, Romance Reports is an exemplar member of the former: no significant advances in characterisation, plot or themes occur when the characters are getting it on; this is either reserved for the non-steamy sessions, or it is that the characters are getting it on which is important.<br /><br />One of Sleepless Brony's other works, Up in the Clouds, contains an example of the other kind. Here, Rarity betrays Fluttershy during a sex scene. Bad Horse's Pony Play has the pivotal moment contained within an act of BDSM (I think that is his fetish, given this and the leather suit 4 Bronycon). The sex, here, is a crucial moment within it. I can't really say the same with RR: the sex scenes improved the story by being there, but they were never crucial.<br /><br />I see Xenophillia's been mentioned. I wouldn't bother with it: there's nothing of interest there save the counter-to-show headcanon, and that's novel if you've only ever read FiM fanfiction from FiMfiction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-11655794677444493872013-11-13T09:05:33.994-06:002013-11-13T09:05:33.994-06:00PWP?PWP?InquisitorMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209346997929773686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-27701409007390114652013-11-13T08:55:08.104-06:002013-11-13T08:55:08.104-06:00Oh, Salvation is marvelous. Before I read that sto...Oh, <i>Salvation</i> is marvelous. Before I read that story, I had absolutely zero interest in mature stories and was convinced there was no way you could do clop (between the mane six, no less!) in anything resembling a good story. <i>Salvation</i> changed all that.<br /><br />However, it's still incomplete, so while I heartily recommend it, you're probably going to have to wait before you review it, Chris.John Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01440476810236159695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-19662029479441786412013-11-13T08:44:44.998-06:002013-11-13T08:44:44.998-06:00I AM NOT A GOLDFIthere was some kind of parallel a...I AM NOT A GOLDFIthere was some kind of parallel about necessity, pacing, level of detail and ways in which they can be used to further the narrative rather than the narrative existing to justify the scene, aka PWP.Present Perfecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16195959811544391904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-44802140977477267962013-11-13T08:02:49.228-06:002013-11-13T08:02:49.228-06:00Writing good sex scenes was like writing other goo...Writing good sex scenes was like writing other good scenes in that you need more than a four-second memory?InquisitorMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209346997929773686noreply@blogger.com