tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post2613781788089078557..comments2024-03-04T02:09:30.979-06:00Comments on One Man's Pony Ramblings: The Myth of BalanceUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-47112544800396870552015-06-08T15:33:05.394-05:002015-06-08T15:33:05.394-05:00Hitler.Hitler.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-18027026975597824782015-05-24T11:29:27.544-05:002015-05-24T11:29:27.544-05:00I think a large part of the problem has to do with...I think a large part of the problem has to do with how the conflict is represented in a scenario with unbalanced protagonists and antagonists. This may be an oversimplification, but a Mary Sue is reviled not only because a flawless, overpowered character is shallow and boring, but because there is often little meaningful conflict in a story when there is never any doubt that the Mary Sue will succeed; in the unlikely incident where there are losses, they are probably minor and not that significant to the plot. All conflict is predictably a win for the protagonist, and at worst, results in a temporary setback.<br /><br />On the other side of the spectrum, an overpowered villain resembles a Mary Sue in that they make the situation so hopeless that conflict is *still* meaningless. Beyond reasonable doubt, the protagonists will lose, therefore suspense and drama are absent from interactions with the antagonist. All conflict is predictably defined as a string of losses, with the best case scenario being a partial loss rather than a complete one. <br /><br />In both scenarios, I feel that it isn't really the balance of power that causes the downfall of a story, but the apathy that the constant reinforcement of that imbalance produces.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-30181023897700703642015-05-23T22:02:26.390-05:002015-05-23T22:02:26.390-05:00I think you are incorrectly discounting the victor...I think you are incorrectly discounting the victories in A New Hope. The most major one being getting the Death Star plans to the Rebellion. Rescuing Leia is also not at all negated by the fact that Vader planned on it and was tracking them, in fact Leia reveals that she knows it's a trap but proceeds to Yavin anyway because with the plans the Rebellion has as good a shot at the Death Star now as they ever will. Vader's trap thus is flipped to a trap for the Death Star.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02167834938058328770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-59623297304120841462015-05-21T19:58:37.189-05:002015-05-21T19:58:37.189-05:00I've played with the overwhelmingly powerful a...I've played with the overwhelmingly powerful antagonist in Diplomacy, matched against skill and luck. It didn't work out too bad, but I'm still tempted to do one with a protagonist who *loses* and in the process, wins.Georg Felishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550333227450728733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-4037349403909931942015-05-21T14:14:34.270-05:002015-05-21T14:14:34.270-05:00Very good points there. I suppose a deus ex machin...Very good points there. I suppose a deus ex machina can either be good or bad as a literary device; it (like so many other things in life) just depends totally on HOW it's done.iisawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11454386148259666080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-1883028223020772622015-05-21T09:45:13.064-05:002015-05-21T09:45:13.064-05:00TV Tropes call it "Darkness-Induced Audience ...TV Tropes call it "Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-63409927616271188772015-05-20T22:51:52.401-05:002015-05-20T22:51:52.401-05:00Today's word of the day is ANGST.Today's word of the day is <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-Huwlg2kY" rel="nofollow">ANGST.</a>SeeVeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-11424254869014499982015-05-20T22:38:27.286-05:002015-05-20T22:38:27.286-05:00InquisitorM's comments remind me of a poem I h...InquisitorM's comments remind me of a poem I heard once:<br /><br /><i>What sins will be remembered,<br />when the books have all been burned?<br />Every page reduced to cinders.<br />Mankind's recklessness unhindered.<br />What will they have really learned?</i>SeeVeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-3208542761424376872015-05-20T22:32:00.260-05:002015-05-20T22:32:00.260-05:00Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog, anyone?Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog, anyone?SeeVeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-88825064403503485332015-05-20T18:16:33.751-05:002015-05-20T18:16:33.751-05:00Sure, true enough. But the setup I was thinking of...Sure, true enough. But the setup I was thinking of was more in what eventually enabled the deus ex machina to come in to play: the belief that only great concentrations of power could be a threat to them. Tarkin's refusal to take the threat of a few squadrons of small fighters seriously leading to the defense pretty much being Darth Vader's personal escort (to say nothing of the whole immediate rejection of the Force), Sauron's distraction with the return of the King of Gondor and Arnor and the army he raised.Icy Shakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-66926407151458480402015-05-20T18:15:25.151-05:002015-05-20T18:15:25.151-05:00'Don't do this' always constitutes a l...'Don't do this' always constitutes a lesson.InquisitorMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209346997929773686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-41406109277123123742015-05-20T18:12:01.391-05:002015-05-20T18:12:01.391-05:00I'm pretty sure that Chris specifically said t...I'm pretty sure that Chris specifically said there were no lessons to be learned from Fall of Equestria.Icy Shakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-52223431516680265882015-05-20T14:41:59.289-05:002015-05-20T14:41:59.289-05:00For me, the problem with an overwhelmingly powerfu...For me, the problem with an overwhelmingly powerful antagonist is that the resolution must needs be via a deus ex machina, pure luck, or a magic self-destruct button, and those sorts of endings aren't very satisfying for me. <br /><br />With that said, it doesn't necessarily mean such a story is bad or unpopular; both Star Wars IV and The Lord of the Rings are exactly that, and exceptions to the rule, IMHO.<br /><br />I haven't started reading Besides the Will of Evil, and did not intend to do so until it was complete, but considering the complaints in the comments, I think I'll also wait until it's reviewed.iisawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11454386148259666080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-47674200342522237972015-05-20T14:35:24.584-05:002015-05-20T14:35:24.584-05:00I think there's a lot of wish-fulfillment invo...I think there's a lot of wish-fulfillment involved in the popularity of LotR and Star Wars IV. When people face overwhelming/inescapable villainy in their own lives, the thought that there might be a self-destruct button that would instantly resolve the conflict in their favor is a wonderful fantasy.iisawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11454386148259666080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-87916298415492576142015-05-20T13:56:39.301-05:002015-05-20T13:56:39.301-05:00Don't burn 'em. There are lessons to be le...Don't burn 'em. There are lessons to be learned.InquisitorMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209346997929773686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-74217671454883591162015-05-20T12:25:43.741-05:002015-05-20T12:25:43.741-05:00Would Chris see *this* as a legitimate use of Fall...Would Chris see *this* as a legitimate use of Fall of Equestria?Icy Shakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-83805012676297474562015-05-20T12:23:00.593-05:002015-05-20T12:23:00.593-05:00Both Star Wars and LOTR, I believe, did well with ...Both Star Wars and LOTR, I believe, did well with the setup of their dei ex machina by weaving them into an established flaw of the villains. LOTR, more than A New Hope, did include significant victories for the good guys along the way (as opposed to the much more minor victories Team Harmony have seen in Besides the Will of Evil), and it's possible that is part of why there's the reaction.Icy Shakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-82971146692828220642015-05-20T12:18:09.553-05:002015-05-20T12:18:09.553-05:00I've seen it done, but think it tends to work ...I've seen it done, but think it tends to work better as comedyIcy Shakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-5888422840073908642015-05-20T11:57:22.592-05:002015-05-20T11:57:22.592-05:00Now I wanna see a story with a really weak villain...Now I wanna see a story with a really weak villain. One who continuously tries to sow chaos and destruction for whatever reason but is constantly thwarted. But the on day the hero gets careless, no longer perceiving this villain as much of a threat, when suddenly, BAM! WORLD DOMINATION!DeftFunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15383241789583487786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-36793026337737117752015-05-20T10:38:30.788-05:002015-05-20T10:38:30.788-05:00You really shouldn't read Project Horizons the...You really shouldn't read Project Horizons then. It is the epitome of "the hero can't win".Sogenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-62688971013088556962015-05-20T07:54:34.743-05:002015-05-20T07:54:34.743-05:00A corollary that always drives me up the wall is t...A corollary that always drives me up the wall is the hero who can't win. This is a major thorn in my side about the <i>Dresden Files</i> series; <i>Harry Potter</i> did it too, albeit to a lesser degree. Victories that aren't victories for the hero, or that are followed up or gained only by intense personal loss can be really compelling, when you have an ongoing series where the hero is never allowed to win-win, never allowed to find happiness despite all they've sacrificed, it starts to wear on the reader. Sure, it's a question not of, will the good guys win, but what will they lose in the process, and that's a good way to tell stories with believable conflicts, but at some point, your heroes need to be thrown a bone. It's depressing otherwise; the heroes are what the reader should be sympathizing with, after all, and if they can't win, what's that say about your readers?Present Perfecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16195959811544391904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-29909498552114924942015-05-20T07:37:22.988-05:002015-05-20T07:37:22.988-05:00Now introducing One Man's Book Burning Club. G...Now introducing <i>One Man's Book Burning Club</i>. Grab a lighter and have a seat. There's enough fuel for everybody!SeeVeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-83800996978975390882015-05-20T07:30:49.530-05:002015-05-20T07:30:49.530-05:00Yeah, Eragon was pretty bad. Lots of awkward philo...Yeah, <i>Eragon</i> was pretty bad. Lots of awkward philosophy and borderline Mary Sue stuff. Everyone's always praising it because, "Oh! The author was only sixteen when he wrote it!" and whatnot, but if I've learned one thing from fanfiction it's that lots of tiny little baby people can write some pretty impressive stuff if they take it seriously. The age (or lack thereof) of an author doesn't make a story better.<br /><br />Also I can sympathize with the unfortunate name business. I had a similar thing happen to me, but with my real name... and with <i>Twilight.</i> Ooooh, it makes me so angry. Every time I go to book stores I always make sure to give those abominations a wide berth.SeeVeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-2756543672143753502015-05-20T06:49:41.900-05:002015-05-20T06:49:41.900-05:00Honestly, I'm kinda glad to see that most of t...Honestly, I'm kinda glad to see that most of the issues in the comments directly relate to why I despise the original. 'Have faith' if near-enough one of the worst storytelling angles possible.<br /><br />I am shamelessly looking forward to the comments after the ending.InquisitorMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209346997929773686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8184562969471581744.post-87058303861734390852015-05-20T06:42:38.112-05:002015-05-20T06:42:38.112-05:00Every time I hear complains about badly written vi...Every time I hear complains about badly written villains, I think of "Eragon". That series made both mistakes, actually -- overpowered hero, and overpowered villain. Paolini made the dragonriders so bloody powerful that it was absolute madness to think that one single guy defeated them all.<br /><br />And then he introduced the elves, which were just ridiculous. And we're led to believe that a single human defeated those too, and is ruling among them all.<br /><br />That, plus the fact that the villain never really appears (and is never really shown doing anything bad? The heroes start fighting against him way before he actually shows he's a villain, which always baffled me) makes it impossible for anybody to believe that Eragon will defeat the bad guy.<br /><br />And... Spoilers? He doesn't. He Care-Bear-stares that guy down, talks to him, and then he commits suicide or whatever.<br /><br />God, I hate Eragon so much. Even worse is the fact that his name is actually similar to my nick. Can't get a breath with that fucking book series.Aragonhttp://www.fimfiction.net/user/Aragonnoreply@blogger.com